Wednesday, January 19, 2011


Posted on January 18, 2011 by Neil Garfield

Thanks to Karl Denninger, we now know that the email came from the Wells block of IP addresses. Special message to the idiot calling himself or herself FEDup, you have denigrated a perfectly valid web site So if you are truly FEDup you musst be referring to what you put in your mouth.


This is a plant from Wells Fargo (the post came from their IP block) and has ZERO affiliation with FedupUSA, which posts over on my forum as well as on their own blog.

Needless to say I’m in contact with them on this and I suspect the owners of FedUp (I’m not an officer, but they are!) will be dealing with this shortly.


But it does present a teaching moment for virtually all homeowners who secretly harbor the idea that this whole mortgage mess and their own mortgage mess is their own fault. We have all developed a sense of being moral persons and paying our bills is one of the ways we demonstrate our morality. So if we don’t pay our morals are low and if we DO pay then our morals are high. Right?

BUT WHAT IF THE BILL IS WRONG? ARE WE IMMORAL IF WE CONTEST IT? What is it about the Banks that because they say something it is presumed true? I find the same people who are angry about the bank bailout in 20028 (Bush)-2009 (Obama) are the ones talking about the morality of paying your bills and presuming the bill for these scrambled mortgages is correct. They are the same people who vote for candidates who keep the bankruptcy code as is — if you own an apartment building you can force the amount due to the value of the property — but if you own just one apartment, you can’t. Both seem to be moral in their eyes. You would think that if it is immoral to seek relief or defend a foreclosure action against one living unit that the immorality would be multiplied by doing for multiple living units. 

Apparently not since Chapter 11 allows the owner to cram down the “bill” to a lower amount than the amount he borrowed but Chapter 13 doesn’t allow the “bill” to be corrected by falling market conditions or even fraud.

So my answers are shown below in bold, and your comments are invited.

Here is the data on the person who submitted this comment on this blog. Go to work folks!

Submitted by FEDup on 2011/01/17 at 9:46 am
I’m fed up too. It is obvious that the rug was pulled out from our economy by these banks who kept getting paid for the same thing over and over again. Sorry to introduce actual facts as opposed to random ideology.

I have done my very best to try and understand where borrowers are coming from in this day and time, but it’s getting so out of control, I can’t take it anymore. If you really studied what actually happened instead of just reading ideological blogs and media, then you would have no trouble understanding where these people were coming from. You might disagree but you would be able to see their point. They were given fraudulent appraisals by an entity posing as a lender when the real lender was hidden from view. They were given the fraudulent misimpression that underwriting standards were being applied to their loans and the “experts” had approved their loan on the basis that yes there is a high likelihood this transaction would work.

We live in a country full of “entitlement”. Everyone wants to point the finger at someone else and NO ONE wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Yes like you and whoever hired you to write this piece. Misdirection is the hallmark of the bank strategy. They want us to look at these terrible borrowers who all woke up one morning, all 20 million of them, and had a secret meeting to bring down the finance world using sophisticated “innovative” financial products which Alan Greenspan even admitted he didn’t understand. The Banks point the finger away from their own fraud and negligence and refuse to take responsibility for the mayhem they created.

Did it ever occur to you people even once, that the reason your homes are getting foreclosed on is because YOU DIDN’T PAY YOUR BILL? But people attitude now a days is that they shouldn’t have to pay their mortgage to remain in their home. Well, isn’t that a sweet deal! Actually yes it did occur to all of us that we weren’t paying a bill and we suffered over the decision that we couldn’t do it, since the information we had was faulty and the assumptions were wrong, all of which was known to everyone except the borrower. And NO people are not out to get a free house, they are out to clean house — straighten out the title that got messed up by the expert bankers, and find out how much is really due UNDER LAW and the identity of the person(s) to whom they owe an obligation UNDER LAW. But it seems you don’t have any respect for the law, you want these people to pay anybody who asks for money whether they are the creditor or not. If you like that system, in the future, please send your car payments to your next door neighbor, he needs the money more than the finance company.

let me let you in a little secret…YOU sat down at the attorneys office for closing and read over your mortgage, outlining the loan amount, terms of the note, and YOUR OBLIGATION to repay the loan. If you chose not to repay the loan, you SIGNED an agreement the mortgage company could take possession of the property to secure their interest against the note. Oh now I see the light. What a secret! Except that first, even if they read and understood every word of what was presented to them, they would not have known the deal — the rest was being hidden. Second, nobody reads every word of the documents and nobody understands them. I have facts — actual surveys of hundreds of people including lawyers who closed on their own homes and for clients. Out of more than 500 people surveyed exactly one person, a mortgage broker had read his documents, and no, he didn’t understand them. Third the LEGAL obligation of the LENDER who was not disclosed to present all the facts in a good faith estimate (GFE) and Settlement Statement is a condition PRECEDENT (i.e., before) the obligation arises. Gibberish you say? OK next time you go to a car dealer and they say they have a car for you and that the charge will be $40,000 see how you feel about it when they refuse to tell you anything about the car until AFTER you paid the $40,000.

What likely happened is you took out a loan far too large for your income, based on what you anticipated happening in the future, i.e. raises, new job, increased income, increase in property value, etc…and when it didn’t work out the way you planned, you are not grown up enough to accept YOU made a mistake, NOT the lender or anyone else. That’s the problem with this country, no one owns up to their mistakes. Instead they start crying “the lender loaned me too much money, it’s not my fault they loaned me more than I could afford.” Here’s a wild thought, TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. Instead of crying that the lender is in the wrong for allowing you to borrower too much money, how about owning up to the fact that YOU took out a loan that YOU couldn’t afford. nice try! Now try some truth and facts.

Or another of my favorites, i see this mostly in bankruptcy cases, ” Motion to value collateral – my property isn’t worth as much as I owe on my loan, therefore i don’t believe i should have to pay the entire loan, and i want the court to make my lender reduce my balance to the current market value.” Are you **** kidding me? Please try to call the NYSE and tell them that your current shares of XYZ Corp are less than what you bought them for, and you don’t believe you should lose money, so you want them to either raise the price of the shares so you can get your money back. PLEASE so that, and then tell me how fast you get laughed off the phone. Purchasing a home is an investment just like a stock, it may go up or down in value, thats the risk you take when you sign the mortgage. You do not have the right to cry about your investment decreasing in value and now you want your lender to reduce your obligation so that you’re even again. Wow, I;m at a loss for words, thats all I can really say without sounding obscene. Well then you ought to go march on Washington because anyone who owns a multi-unit apartment building can do exactly what find so disgusting UNDER LAW. Single family homeowners want the same rights but can’t get it. Which do YOU think is more disgusting?

And finally, the article above…Wells Fargo “duped” me into a loan mod to stop foreclosure. You are so correct on this one. Your lender cared enough about the American homeowner that they doubled, and sometimes tripled or more their loss mitigation staff in order to try to save borrowers homes. I’m sorry if it offends anyone, but you people make me sick physically. Your lender has NO OBLIGATION to offer you any type of loan modification. In my personal opinion, if this is the thanks they’re going to receive I wish all lenders would simply stop offering mods, and start foreclosing on all you deadbeats who don’t want to take responsibility for your own actions. This part is what clearly identifies you as a paid heckler for the banks. First Wells Fargo never owned the mortgage so their attempt to distract everyone from that fact and the fact that the mortgage, note and obligation are hopelessly obscured by the action of who? Wells Fargo, that’s who! The longer they strong out the borrower, the more money they make at the expense of anyone who has a pension and anyone who could afford that house if the appraisal had not been fudged and if the loan terms were not so tricky. You now how many types of mortgages there were in the 1970′s? 4-5. You know how many types of mortgages were offered by an army of sellers (thousands of whom were convicted felons for economic crimes) in the time leading up to the mortgage “crisis”? Over 400.

Just a little fun fact for you who think that your mortgage companies are evil and only want to take the poor american’s home away and laugh while doing so: The average delinquency of a property foreclosed on by Wells Fargo was 16 months behind in payments. That means, on average, Wells Fargo gave homeowners 1 year, and 4 months to either complete a loan mod, pay their mortgage current, or sell the property before foreclosure. Let’s look at it another way, Wells allowed the average borrower who lost their home to live in their property free for 1 year, and 4 months before FINALLY giving up and foreclosing. I’m sure you wacko’s will find a way to spin that to the negative as well, so whatever. This also identifies who is paying you and who probably wrote this for you. Wells Fargo posed as the LENDER when they never had a nickle in the deal. They posed as the creditor at auction and “bought” the property with a note payable to someone else. And the reason for the time delays was sheer volume — the decision to take the house and the homeowner think they were in modification or settlement process was merely a ruse to get large payments that would have otherwise brought the mortgage current but for the ridiculous and fictitious fees, interests and costs attached. Why? Because of someone actually paid every nickle, and many did try to do just that, there was nobody who could sign a satisfaction of mortgage. Why? Because nobody on Wall Street knows or cares who has any rights, if any, under the obligation, note or mortgage.

Last fun fact…your mortgage company does NOT want your house back. banks are in the business of lending money, not flipping real estate. This is exactly why Wells Fargo gives the avg foreclosure 1 year, 4 months to work something out before taking the house. THEY DON”T WANT YOUR HOUSE! What they do want….is for your to take responsibility as an adult and PAY YOUR BILLS. But that’s clearly too much to ask of the average american homeowner now a days. AGAIN, I SAY YOU ARE A SHILL FOR THE BANKS! “your mortgage company” is neither identified nor consistent. The note and mortgage were passed around amongst a dozen people feeding out of the trough, including the taxpayer trough where more money was given to them than any default or collection of defaults. The entity you identify as a mortgage company is a sham entity without any authority, ownership or anything at risk. THEY DO WANT THE HOUSE but your right, they don’t want the house BACK because they never had any right to it in the first place.

instead, you look for every single little random detail and try to pick it apart an exploit it to your benefit. Guess what Pick-a-payment customers, you knew that choosing the least amount you could pay was not going to satisfy your mortgage, that option was meant to HELP YOU OUT IN A BIND if you came up short one month, (again bad, bad, evil lender for offering borrowers some help in a bind) but instead of using it the way it was designed, YOU chose to pay the lowest you could every month, likely because you took out a mortgage that was too much for you, and based your ability to pay it back on what the lowest amount you could pay every month without going into default. And then when you noticed you’re property value going down, and your payment going up (because you haven’t even been paying the interest amount each month), you start crying unfair lending practices. Boohoo. How about you take responsibility for the fact that you took out a loan too big to handle, and made a bad decision. BOO-HOO? You trivialize the fall of Wall Street as though we don’t have an effective unemployment rate of 20% like a Banana Republic. The ones who over-leveraged, as it is agreed by every economist financier, finance pundit and expert in trading exotic instruments were the banks far more than any homeowner. THAT is what caused these problems. And the way they they used leverage was by taking a piece of property worth $100,000, jacking up the appraised value to $200,000 and then selling it 5 times in different ways for $1,000,000. You can if you want to, you would cry to if it happened to you. If borrowers knew that 12 people were feeding off their transaction and it was disclosed what figures were being exchanged, they would have assumed correctly that they could get a better deal elsewhere. If investors knew the true facts and had not depended upon their appraisers (rating agencies) they would never have parted with a cent — so there would have been no money to fund mortgages.

Just wait for the day when lenders stop loaning money to anyone without an 800 credit score and never missed a single payment, and the mortgage payment not to exceed 20% of their income. That’ll just give you cry babies something else to cry and sue about. Good Luck.

When all else fails, scare the shit out of them. When lending standards tighten up, make sure it is the borrowers who are blamed not the banks. Ah FEDup, if you really want people to take responsibility for their actions, the risks they take etc. I suggest you start with yourself, selling out to the highest bidder so that your country can continue to suffer. Come clean, and we’ll back you up. Don’t come clean and we’ll expose you.
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